But of course he is…It’s common sense! I’m in total agreement.
ODM has adopted a simple defence strategy ” all we did is call for mass action”. But prior to the calls, they had created ethnic tensions against a community and mass action meant attack, evict and kill members of that community. We have seem many mass action all over the world but calling what happened in 2007 ‘peaceful demonstrations’, i’ll disagree totally
in fact I’d go on to say, and all you didn’t to is call for *peaceful* mass action. In fact I can’t even remember Raila calling for peace… ever. In fact calling for mass action when things have clearly gone overboard is like adding parrafin the flames!
I’m sick of ODM AND PNU. We need a party that can stand on “we aim for this, we offer that” rather than “those ‘other’ guys are this and those ‘other’ guys are that”.
Demarq, did you watch Uhuru’s defence at the ICC…Those clips showed Raila asking for peaceful protests, even footage of him asking people to wear white arm bands is there. In fact that clip worked against Uhuru’s arguments.
I would appreciate a link to those. And from what I understand Uhuru’s defence consisted of clips showing Raila calling for mass action, against clips showing Uhuru calling for peace. the clips are said to have sent the ODM camp into a “crisis” meeting (quote:daily nation).
I just doubt Uhuru would use clips of Raila calling for peace as his defence. in fact “Mr. Kay played a 15 minute video that showed Mr. Kenyatta speaking to a large group of irate youths” here :http://www.icckenya.org/2011/09/uhuru-kenyatta-called-for-dialogue-respect-for-the-rule-of-law-and-peace-in-kenya-his-lawyers-tell-icc-judges/
However I may be wrong and if anyone has a link to the said clip, please share, I would like to have a look at it for myself.
First of all, there was no crisis meeting…that was a DN creation. I’ll get you the link as I’ve just seen this, but if all else fails…iko you tube.
Hey you sound like one of those lawyers representinng Uhuru,,i did attend most of ODM’s meetings before election and PNU’s and even after election at point i ODM called for mass action to kill or displace a fellow kenyan,my question to u is how do u understand the word Mass actio???IN YOUR OWN WORDS!
“Hey you sound like one of those lawyers representinng Uhuru” complement accepted. However I do not really stand for, or align myself with Uhuru, at least not until the ICC finds him innocent (if that is the case!).
I also doubt ODM (or at least Raila) directly asked people to go kill other people as you say. that said…
I perceive mass action to be a call to “fight for a cause”.I also contend that such strong language while stirring should be used carefully. What I mean is that due to it’s strong nature, interpretations as to it’s meaning can have horrendous consequences. Cults and radicals the world over exploit this nature of language to fuel the fire for their cause. I just find it hard to believe that when you see people running around murdering, raping and mutilating hapless innocents under the banner of “mass action”, you don’t start to think that calling for ‘more’ mass action might have even graver consequences.
Further I feel that many opportunities presented themselves at which point one would have a chance to stake out the limits of “mass action”. I can’t somehow help but to think the lack of will to use this opportunities was somehow convenient.
I am asking, pleading for proof otherwise. If my assessment is wrong I would like to know (with proof, not snarky comments). I remember asking someone here for exactly the proof I want, but unfortunetly I’m still waiting. Frankly beyond that I would like proof that other than this ‘one time’ Raila was out there preaching restraint, peace and civility. As I say many opportunities many…
believe me I want to be wrong, I actually think highly of Raila, but this question needs answers before my conscience is free to lend him my support (if that’s the case)…
This is the fact. It was all clearly recorded On TVs that ODM called for mass action. It was all recorded on TVs that the Government through its police and state power shooting and killing people. And it is a fact that the government negligently failed in its statutory duty and allowed other people to kill others.
Truth is coming out sl, o,o, o, o, o, w, w, w, ly; However late, itsbetter late than never, or so they said.
Same players,you against us,same grounds,same game,same rules,if ICC does not get Muthaura,Ali,Uhuru and Kibaki then the same is bound to occur,It is all in the air again!who controls the till? that’s the issue. Spread love in this media not hate, get some sense, heal up and embrace peace, why are you bitter when you are not even benefitting from the honey jar that they fought for? Ok the youth fund is skewed in it’s distribution but have you even benefitted? they wanted it for thir own, their own still live in tents, reason? Like Mungiki, they eat their own.The very people you are fighting ofer a safer abode than your own. Try owning a car and a house in Kirinyaga……………………………..done?……..now try the same in Migori and you’ll wish you were born near the lake, not Mt. Kenya
Hey Patrick that’s a foolish way of interpreting what mass action means. If you are sure of what you are saying then go testify because we the information. Otherwise stop spreading rumors.
Hey Patrick that’s a foolish way of interpreting what mass action means. If you are sure of what you are saying then go testify because we need the information. Otherwise stop spreading rumors.
How do you explain the call for peaceful mass action and attacks on particular communities. Wasn’t mass action supposed to protest allegedly rigged elections? Here
This is the sort of divisive speech we just don’t need to take from our politicians, especially one who can honestly stand up, straight faced, and speak ““I cannot take political or personal responsibility for any loss of life or property”. As we near what will be a very trying and fragile time for the country we should not tolerate this.
Sorry but the truth hurts!
n’ tha blame game continues.vipi nikupe mkate nusu,ushibe,kisha uende kutangaza ni mimi niliiba?
Your post is complete with these words “vipi nikupe mkate nusu niliyoiba,ushibe,kisha uende kutangaza ni mimi niliiba?
If Kibaki wants he can also go to the courts and be cross examined under oath. Not bark from state house in a manner suggesting that one is under drunken stupor. Kibaki is not only responsible for those killed by police but responsible for all those who died during PEV as he purpoted to act as head of state who had sworn under the constitution to protect lives of kenyans. That is the law and if he did not protect the lives, he is criminally in breach of the constitution. This will be a fact until Kibaki goes to his grave….
True, it all comes down to that infamous stolen election….I
Stupid an idiotic
Unless we have intentional memory loss, PEV started when Ubako was declared the winner.RAO and his leutenants had vowed that Kenya was not going to be the same again if PNU stole the election.They called for mass action knowing well that ODM followers understood mass action as mass rapes, mass murders of PNU supporters and mass bunring and occupying of people property.In the video clips, mass protesters were not carrying white handkachiefs to indicate they were peaceful.They were carrying quarry stones and other clude weapons sing war songs”NO RAILA , NO PEACE’.And when RAO was one time asked why he was not on the front line, he answered that generals dont go on the front line.It is evident that one condition for UBAKO to agree for dialogue was for RAO call off mass action because many innocent kenyans were losing their lives.
RAO is he lamest and most stupid unwise leader in Kenya. ODOMO big mouth for nothing.in such times he should be wise and zip his big mouth. we need development lather than mouthing mouthing unwise words
This is a different Kenya, a different world….raping, stealing & killing the democratic space people died for is just as evil. Presidents must respect the peoples wishes, Kibaki lost but he hang on. Unfortunately, Kenyans were not in the mood to be taken for a long ride… UNFORTUNATELY PEV happened. And the ultimate responsibility for PEV is on Kibaki. Many say Raila should not have called for mass action, that’s not a legal argument…mass action is stipulated in the constitution, so Raila had a right to do so. Kibaki did not have a right to steal the election! But he did & that is where all hell broke loose…that’s why the buck stops with him. That plus the obvious fact that he was the president, CIC of the country-he can’t/will never escape that.
So don’t be afraid of the truth, this is nothing new. Kenyans have never moved on from the previous election…these things Raila said, people talk about everyday, there’s nothing unwise about TRUTH. No need to get worked up!
Obamaonyango? why the hype with the Os,they dont shrum lather it’s ‘ rather’
After reading his response here http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000045231&cid=4 he may have a point. Here is what I mean – the title of this article is “raila says kibaki liable for 2008 post poll chaos”, however note what Raila said, “The President was personally and politically responsible for what police and other State agencies did…” note “what the police and state agencies did”. Not poll chaos. Here I agree with Raila. Further the title of this article is then clearly out of context.
This is an improvement but he is still not in the clear for “I cannot take political or personal responsibility for any loss of life or property because I am not aware of any member of ODM who took law into their hands.” That’s no excuse not even in law, So I still maintain: where were the calls for peaceful demonstration? The media spent a lot of time calling for peace, but all I saw on TV even at the height of violence was “mass action!”. As a leader it is not only your duty to lead, but also define what is and isn’t acceptable. Further under the same way we hold Kibaki responsible for the action of the police and GSU, is the same way I hold Raila responsible for the actions of his supporters.
Raila can still salvage the situation if he admits that both ODM and the government were key elements in the chaos, and that had they handled the situation better the period wouldn’t have been the blood bath that it was…
This matter may be sorted by analysing the meaning some people attached to a leader,s speaches, exhortations body language and demeanor at that time (ICC calls it code language).we saw everything and shall never forget.we know the person to be denied votes at all costs for the sake of the peace of our country in future.
Raila’s point of view is the lamest yet! Then he later says he was quoted out of context! The first attacks were by ODM supporters who attacked PNU supporters in the argument that they were supporters of the man who had stolen the elections! Then later came attacks from PNU supporters who di so avenging their brothers in the R.Valley especially. So,is it Kibaki who ordered the initial attacks? Is it him who ordered that whoever attacks whoever yet he had reatained power? The agressor would obviously be the person who claims that the elections have been stolen_NOT the 1 who had made sure that he has been sworn in, Rytfully or wrongly.
The best word i can use is pitty you,
No President in todays era is sworn in at night,,secondly anything done at night especially in relation with the state must be doubted,thirdly if the election results were genuine why did the GSU hijack and took custody of the commisioner of elections to announce the results instead of following the rite proceedure???and the results given to Kivuitu by the soldiers to announce came from who?and where?
Atieirene okay but you are in trouble stop thinking of Kikuyus always you travelled 500 kms fro your rural home to come and lilve next to them ie the City that borders Kiambu you willnever win against them nature, genes and entrpreneurial spirits puts the ahead of you for a long time men they are Sharp sly and win easily by whatever ways ! Mois talked bad about them for 24 years but he is now quiet!